25/09/2026
🙏🏻
A Conversation with the Great Ma Yueh Liang
Shared from Tai Chi en Parques de Madrid
Ma Yueliang (1901–1998) was a famous Taijiquan teacher, physician, and senior student of Wu Jianquan, the founder of Wu-style Tai Chi. After the Cultural Revolution in China, Ma Yueliang contributed to preserving and continuing the teachings of many forms, practices, and methods, some of which were considered “secret” or reserved for inner-door students.
Below is an excerpt from an interview conducted in 1998 that appeared in the magazine Inside Kung Fu.
Q: In what year did you start studying with Master Wu Jianquan?
A: When I was 20 years old. I met him when I was younger, but I didn’t start studying with him formally until I was 20.
Q: What do you remember most about Wu’s teaching?
A: He never changed the form. I teach Wu Jianquan’s original style. It is not uncommon for me to change it, like in America or Hong Kong, because it is like handwriting. Everyone has a different style. I think you can change the form only if you are very skilful. I studied the forms for 10 years without making any changes, exactly like Wu. After studying for 10 years, I came to Shanghai and started helping Master Wu. Even so, his form did not change.
Q: Because his body is slightly different from Wu’s, has his form changed at all?
A: Only in trivial details.
Q: Before learning Taijiquan, did you learn any other style of gongfu (kung fu)?
A: Lots of hard gongfu and Tongbeiquan.
Q: Many Taijiquan practitioners practise other forms of Qigong as a supplement. Do they teach other methods to develop internal strength?
A: There is actually no need to practise special Qigong. Taijiquan is Qigong. We don’t have any separate practice like this in our own style.
Q: Many Westerners and Chinese doubt that Taijiquan is useful for self-defence. Is it?
A: The first purpose is health. The second is self-defence. Taijiquan does not contain any intention to attack others first.
Q: The Wu style is the most popular in Hong Kong. Do you know the history of Wu style in Hong Kong?
A: I know that the main points of the style are the same, but they make the slow form faster and they don’t know the fast Taijiquan style. The methods of the fast and slow forms are not the same.
Q: You studied shortly after Taiji became public through the school where Yang Chengfu and Wu Jianquan taught together. What is your memory of Yang?
A: I often saw Yang Chengfu going to Wu’s house to practise pushing hands. The fast form of Yang style has been lost. Yang Chengfu died with the quick form. I witnessed how Chengfu practised the fast form.
Q: I ask about Yang because the Yang style is the most popular form in America, and one of Yang’s students, Cheng Man-ch’ing, is responsible for popularising Taiji in America. Did you know Cheng when you were young?
A: Yes. He was a traditional Chinese doctor. He taught Taiji only after he went to America. It was good. He knew Tuishou. After the “liberation”, he went to Taiwan, and from Taiwan to America.
Q: One of the reasons why Taiji is popular in the West is because many people consider it a spiritual path.
A: Taijiquan is related to Daoism. The creator of Taiji was a Taoist. For us here in China, we are only allowed to talk about the effects on health and martial arts in Taijiquan. Before 1914, Taiji was secret; it was taught only to the Master’s disciples.
Q: Who was the first Westerner to learn the Wu style?
A: In 1914, a famous Western fighter arrived in Beijing. I didn’t believe in Chinese martial arts. He met Master Wu and challenged him, and the man was easily thrown to the ground. Then he began practising Taijiquan with Master Wu. He was perhaps the first Westerner to practise Taijiquan. His name was William or Williams. He graduated in 1914 from Wu’s first class. He was a professional wrestler. I think he practised for a year.
Sophia Delza studied with me in the 1940s. She was probably the first Westerner to teach Taijiquan in America.
Note: At this point, he took a picture of Wu’s first class of graduates. He indicated himself as a teenager, as well as the Westerner named William(s).
Q: What are your ideas about the future of Taiji in the West?
A: The condition is good. The outlook is good. Some of the students who come here learn only the forms for a short time and return to become teachers, but it is a shame that very few people really know Taijiquan.
Q: How does the Wu style differ from other Taijiquan styles?
A: I only practise the Wu style, so I can’t explain why one style is better than another. There are five main styles of Taijiquan in China: Yang, Wu, Chen, Wu (Hao), and Sun. They all have their own characteristics, but their theoretical basis is the same.
Q: What advice would you give to beginners?
A: My five-character motto for the apprentice is: stillness, lightness, slowness, awareness, and perseverance. These five essentials are interrelated. The apprentice must always have these principles in mind.
Q: You have taught for many years. In your opinion, what makes a student good at Taijiquan?
A: Only if the five-character slogan has been seriously followed.
Q: After practising for so long, you must have gone through many difficult stages in your Taijiquan study. Can you describe some of these learning levels, and how would you describe your understanding of Taijiquan now?
A: The results of a hardworking student who follows the strict rules of the classics and those of one who learns Taijiquan only through formalism are quite different. The first can be called a true practitioner, and the second a false practitioner.
The late teacher Wu Jianquan used to advise his students to practise the slow form of Taiji 10,000 times in three years. I also remember that in ancient Beijing, the Master sometimes used a long rope positioned just above the students’ heads during practice, while the teacher stood to the side with a ruler in his hand. He would hit the student’s head with the ruler whenever the student’s head rose above the level of the rope.
The knees should always be bent while practising the forms. They should never be fully straightened unless the student is very weak or tired, in which case they should take only a short break.
I believe that, in some respects, one can understand the essence of Taijiquan only after reaching a certain level of genuine ability in the art.
Q: Does the Wu style contain a method of free application after studying pushing hands for a certain period of time? Does the Wu style contain two-person forms in addition to pushing hands?
A: Yes, we have a method of free application called Lan Cai Hua. For many reasons, people who are outside the door are rarely taught this.
Q: How can a student better judge the ability of a Taijiquan teacher?
A: I think a new student can judge a teacher’s ability in many ways. A very reliable way is to study the teachings of the classics. Only the teachings of a teacher who conforms to the classics should be followed, and one should discard those ideas that contradict the teachings of the classics.
Q: Do you imagine Qi circulating through specific pathways in the body, or does this happen naturally after many years of practice?
A: I can’t imagine circulating the Qi along specific pathways during the exercise. The classics say: “Motivate the Qi with the Mind, and motivate the movement of the body with the Qi.”
In reality, the effects of the practice of Taijiquan involve three things: the Mind, the Qi, and the body, both internally and externally, with the sudden use of the Mind, which in Chinese is called “Yi”.
The classics also state: “Put emphasis on the Spirit, not on Qi. Too much concern about Qi results in stagnation.”
This can be difficult for a beginner to understand. To train Qi, it is more appropriate to practise while “standing like a stake” (Zhan Zhuang). The beginner is advised not to imagine the circulation of Qi while practising the Taiji form.
Q: Once you begin to experience the circulation of Qi in the body, what do you do? Observe it? Play with it? Try not to think about it?
A: The student is able to feel the movement of internal Qi through the body, to some extent, after three years of serious practice. But the apprentice is still in the initial stage of gongfu. They should simply continue practising normally.
Q: Is it possible, according to your experience, to push a person without touching them through the use of internal energy? If so, why do people practise this skill? What is its use?
A: Yes. The mechanism of pushing a person without touching the body is quite complex, but it is never mysterious. It is the effect of the sensitivity of the Mind, Qi, and Taijiquan techniques on the parts of both practitioners, as well as the maturity of their Taijiquan ability. This means that one’s ability can be even more effective and powerful when used in real fighting.
Q: In addition to the Taijiquan form, is pushing hands also a form of Qigong?
A: Pushing hands should also be practised according to the principles of Qigong.
Q: Are weapon forms essential to Taijiquan’s development? What specific skills or energy does weapons training develop?
A: Weapons are used as an extension of the arms. Weapons training is also useful for freehand or unarmed combat.
Q: In your 87 years, what is the most important thing you have learned from the practice of Taijiquan?
A: I would like to quote a saying from the classics to answer your question:
“Ask what is the final purpose: It is longevity with eternal spring (spiritual immortality).”
